S4E15 – Scaling Success: How Luzmo’s B2B SaaS Surpassed $5M+ ARR With Thomas De Clerck

In this episode of the Grow Your B2B SaaS Podcast, Joran hosts Thomas De Clerck, founder of Luzmo (formerly Cumul), a company specializing in AI-powered analytics solutions for businesses. Thomas, who brings extensive experience from previous roles at Google and other tech companies, shares his journey from Luzmo’s inception in 2015 to its current status with over €5 million in annual recurring revenue (ARR). 

Thomas’ story provides a masterclass in navigating the complexities of scaling a SaaS startup and offers invaluable insights for aspiring entrepreneurs. Tune in to explore the key takeaways from his experience that can guide you on the path to success.

Networking and Incubators: Building the Foundation

The early stages of a startup are crucial, and Thomas underscores the power of networking and incubator programs. Luzmo’s initial success was heavily influenced by its participation in Belgian incubators, which provided not only essential resources and mentorship but also opportunities to pitch to potential clients. These programs acted as a launchpad, validating Luzmo’s business model and helping secure early adopters. For any budding entrepreneur, immersing oneself in supportive communities and leveraging these platforms can be a game-changer.

The Power of Pivoting

Adapting to market needs is vital, and Luzmo’s journey is a testament to this. Initially focusing on internal reporting solutions, Luzmo pivoted to an embedded analytics service after receiving feedback from early users. This shift was driven by a clearer understanding of market demands, particularly from SaaS companies looking for customizable, white-labeled dashboards. This willingness to pivot based on customer feedback not only refined Luzmo’s product but also set the stage for accelerated growth.

Expanding Horizons: The U.S. Market Strategy

Recognizing that the Belgian market alone wouldn’t suffice, Thomas and his team set their sights on the U.S. market early on. Their strategy included frequent travels, building relationships, and hiring local sales representatives. Despite challenges, including the financial strain of international expansion and the impact of COVID-19, their efforts paid off—one-third of Luzmo’s revenue now comes from the U.S. This experience highlights the importance of a global perspective and the potential benefits of relocating or establishing a strong presence in key markets.

Balancing Inbound and Outbound Strategies

Luzmo’s growth can be attributed to a well-balanced go-to-market strategy. While inbound marketing through content and paid campaigns played a significant role in generating leads, Thomas also emphasizes the importance of outbound sales efforts. Targeting specific personas within ideal customer profiles (ICPs) created a secondary revenue stream. The key takeaway is to continuously refine and adapt these strategies to meet evolving market conditions and optimize lead generation.

Leveraging Partnerships and Events

Partnerships and joint events have been instrumental in Luzmo’s expansion. While building these relationships takes time, the long-term benefits are substantial. Thomas highlights that even smaller, value-driven events can be effective in showcasing products and generating leads. Strategic partnerships and collaborative events not only broaden your reach but also enhance your credibility in the market.

How to Scale with Caution

Scaling a team can be a double-edged sword. Thomas learned the importance of managing growth carefully to avoid inefficiencies and financial strain. Instead of rapid expansion, Luzmo adopted a more measured approach, ensuring that each new hire aligned with the company’s growth trajectory and operational needs. This thoughtful scaling approach has helped maintain financial health and operational efficiency.

Harnessing AI for Competitive Edge

Luzmo’s integration of AI into its product offering has been a key differentiator. The AI-powered embed solution simplifies dashboard creation and provides actionable insights from data. This focus on leveraging new technologies not only adds value for customers but also positions Luzmo ahead of competitors. Embracing AI and machine learning can transform your product, offering deeper insights and enhanced functionality.

Learning from Mistakes and Personal Growth

Thomas’s journey also highlights the importance of learning from mistakes and aligning personal passion with professional roles. From scaling challenges to the need for a more customer-centric approach, each misstep has been a learning opportunity. Thomas’s decision to delegate sales responsibilities to focus on product development exemplifies how strategic delegation can reinvigorate one’s drive and sustain growth.

Final Thoughts

Thomas De Clerck’s story with Luzmo is a compelling example of how strategic pivots, customer feedback, and innovative thinking can drive SaaS success. His insights offer practical advice for founders at various stages of their journey, emphasizing the need for adaptability, continuous learning, and a global perspective. By embracing these principles, aspiring SaaS entrepreneurs can navigate the complexities of building and scaling a successful business.

For those venturing into the SaaS world, Luzmo’s journey provides a valuable blueprint for transforming challenges into opportunities and achieving sustainable growth.

Key Timecodes

• (00:43) – Guest Introduction
• (01:13) – Company Overview
• (01:48) – Funding and Growth
• (02:27) – Product and Services
• (02:30) – Company Description
• (03:00) – Personal Journey
• (03:39) – Motivation and Goals
• (04:48) – Challenges and Learning
• (06:15) – Founding Story and Pivot
• (08:16) – Market Feedback and Success
• (09:38) – Early Customers and Growth Tactics
• (11:01) – Equity and Incubator Programs
• (11:16) – Rock Bottom Moments
• (12:07) – U.S. Market Entry
• (13:10) – Company Challenges
• (14:13) – Go-to-Market Strategy
• (15:21) – Successful Strategies
• (16:25) – Additional Go-to-Market Techniques
• (18:03) – Critical Decisions
• (19:24) – New Initiatives and AI
• (20:29) – Rebranding
• (21:51) – Outbound and Sales Scaling
• (22:58) – AI and Machine Learning
• (25:09) – Reflections and Learnings
• (26:54) – Practical Advice for Founders
• (28:05) – Advice for Early-Stage Founders
• (30:24) – Advice for Scaling Founders
• (32:22) – Summary
• (33:11) – Closing Remarks

Transcript

[00:00:00.000] – Thomas

What I haven’t done enough in the beginning is with your initial customers, really having crystal clear and eventually asking them one time too much on every step of why they eventually chose you and how that potentially changed even after signing a contract with you. I believe outbound is something that’s tough but will always exist and should exist because I believe there’s a lot of value in there if you do it right. I’m always a big believer of outbound and getting after your personas within your ICP companies. So I’ve always had a strong belief in that. That has been an evolving challenge to have that second line of revenue.

[00:00:43.730] – Joran

In today’s episode, my guest is Thomas De Clerck. Tomas is the founder of Luzmo, formerly known as Cumul. Luzmo helps businesses with implementing analytics in their platform via their AI-powered embed solution. Before starting Luzmo, Tomas worked in various roles and companies like project engineering engineer, advanced business manager, and lastly, as a senior export consultant at Google. He always had a natural curiosity into the technical aspects of things, which has a really red line in his career. Live from Belgium, welcome to the show, Thomas.

[00:01:13.450] – Thomas

Thanks, Johann. Thanks for having me. What an intro. Nice.

[00:01:16.460] – Joran

Let’s just dive right into LASMO and into yourself. First of all, with LASMO, when did you start it?

[00:01:21.980] – Thomas

The company officially launched end of 2015, so it’s a bit more than eight years now.

[00:01:29.070] – Joran

We’re going to talk about Not the transition of the name, but it was first called Cumul, right?

[00:01:34.590] – Thomas

Cumul.io, Cumul. It’s also one of the reasons because there was sometimes or oftentimes a bit of discussion on how to pronounce, etc. So indeed, Cumul, Cumul.io, mainly. Okay, nice.

[00:01:46.190] – Joran

Are you funded or bootstrapped?

[00:01:48.250] – Thomas

No, we’re a funded company. We’re funded over three funding rounds, 2017, 2020, 2023, January, and total around…

[00:01:59.060] – Joran

14 million, okay, May I ask what is your current ARR?

[00:02:01.620] – Thomas

We’re beyond €5 million.

[00:02:04.950] – Joran

Is there any separation for you guys between product and service?

[00:02:08.830] – Thomas

The ARR I mentioned is purely product. We do have additional services, more and more. A little part is recurring, but we do also have when it comes to onboarding, potentially also validation of the software in the sales process, some additional revenue, but it’s not included in the recurring because it’s-How many employees do you guys have right now? Just beyond 50.

[00:02:27.550] – Joran

How would you explain what does LASMO do?

[00:02:30.560] – Thomas

You explained, we mainly work together with software and SaaS companies, and we offer them a building block. You might have Stripe or Paddle for payments or Intercom for chats. We need to empower, we need to come all things dashboard, reports, analytics for their end users. Really offering an off-the-shelf product so they can just plug it in, let the management to customer success and products, offloading developers to develop and maintain dashboards and reports inside the application.

[00:03:00.910] – Joran

We’re going to dive into the personal aspect. May I ask how old are you?

[00:03:04.180] – Thomas

What do you think?

[00:03:06.140] – Joran

You look young.

[00:03:08.890] – Thomas

38? Yeah, I’m 39.

[00:03:11.490] – Joran

That’s a pretty good guess.

[00:03:13.360] – Thomas

Good guess, yeah.

[00:03:14.760] – Joran

Is this your first startup?

[00:03:17.620] – Thomas

It’s a first startup. We’re a first-time founder, together with Kajal Haruyns, so we’re three first-time founders. But we’ve been on the road for eight years. It’s been a run. It’s been a while. But I’ve been working before, like you mentioned in the intro. Let’s say I have working on Cumulai Lozmo and half divided over three, let’s say, employee roles I’ve had.

[00:03:35.920] – Joran

Have you always wanted to be an entrepreneur?

[00:03:39.460] – Thomas

It’s a good question. I believe so. I still have some memories that I have written down. It’s somewhere deep inside of me, indeed, that’s something that has been itching, so to say. Then back in 2015 or early 2016, because Kyle, I already had a technical MVP around that time. Kyle is a youth friend of mine. We bumped into each other when I was still at Google. He showed me and he was like, We want to bring this to the markets. I’m looking for a third founder to cover that part. And that’s how the ball started rolling.

[00:04:11.730] – Joran

So you were able to join them? Yeah, exactly. Do you guys have an end goal to find with LASMO?

[00:04:17.330] – Thomas

We’re funded or a venture-backed company. Last round, last funding round was early last year, so a bit more than a year ago. Right now, the next stage is to go beyond, obviously, that 5 million. We were at a lower AR at the funding round. But the next milestone is towards the 10 million that we have in mind. That’s the current milestone that we’re working on with all 50 lesions.

[00:04:40.340] – Joran

When you look at the growth, is that something which keeps you motivated, or I guess to rephrase it, what keeps you motivated? How does it keep going every day?

[00:04:48.570] – Thomas

Yeah, that’s a great question. Obviously for myself and the founding team, it’s been a long ride. What’s currently keeping motivated, it’s also a continuous learning about yourself, where do you get your energy from. An example I can give is that we hired a VP sales, an external VP sales in April this year, so about four months ago. That was a decision I said maybe after seven years, so about September last year. It’s time for a fresh wind, let’s put it that way, because the energy that I keep on getting is also more from the new ideas and new experiments. Currently, I’m rather having a role, obviously with the AI wave that we’re on, exploring with existing customers, also net new prospects, where Luzmo with a new AI component, it can make a difference. When it comes to your question, that’s what I’m currently doing together with CTO founder, Rui and his team, really looking into a second product and how to commercialize that.

[00:05:43.060] – Joran

Where you lost the energy, you will bring somebody else on and you can focus on what you really love doing.

[00:05:49.170] – Thomas

Exactly. Growing at the stage, let’s say 50 plus people. In the commercial team, it’s around 15, 16 people. I think the operational component from that role is something that I found less appealing. I also believe other people may be better than myself. That’s an evolution which I found natural. Then also came a step by growing into the team where I learned about myself, where I should be focusing on. Yeah, nice.

[00:06:15.220] – Joran

This was quite a bit of the fire round. We’re going to dive now deeper into your journey. I’m going to start at the beginning. Three founders, you came into the founding team you mentioned. How did you guys came up with the idea of LASMO?

[00:06:29.860] – Thomas

Jack, it’s an idea of Karen Harun, a CEO, CTO that actually were back in the days even before 2015, colleagues at a business intelligence BI consulting firm where they were working with existing technologies, typically more legacy, very technical players, and customizing or implementing that technology at larger corporates. That’s a very technical implementation, but still implementing that over time with a nice price ticket for non technical users, where they were thinking with also SaaS coming up, why don’t we build a product where they can, from day one, non-technical people, actually start working with their data and visualizing in a very easy way those reports? That was the initial idea they came up with and they started working on as an MVP in their spare time. Now, fast forward to today, but actually fast forward after a year or two, also with me on board, is we initially had a different product or a different end use case. We were Prior to Google Data Studio, Power BI, etc, we were an internal reporting application, where you could connect your CRM or applications for, let’s say, SMB players all around. And eventually, after a year and a half in, we actually switched the use case to SaaS players to be an embedded component, to be part of other software offerings rather than a standalone reporting solution.

[00:07:53.550] – Thomas

So we actually pivoted in the first year and a half, Joran.

[00:07:56.890] – Joran

Yeah, because it goes into my next question I was going to ask. Did you know from the beginning it was such a success, but you pivoted after a year and a half? Most likely not, but you knew you guys had something and went from there. What was the feedback from the market? How did you guys knew that it was going to be a success with the pivot, for example. Yeah.

[00:08:16.940] – Thomas

Looking back, we actually grew to a nice level of ARR on the internal reporting solution. We also got our first, let’s say, pre-seed funding round with the majority of the ARR coming from the internal reporting solution. But actually, initial customers were software companies, and they liked the experience, they liked the UI and the look and feel and the options to fully customize and white-label the end result. The initial questions came from our first customers. We, quite soon also, as we were API first, had that secondary offering. Then, just to be fully transparent, other players come up with eventually also free solutions. A certain moment in time, we said, Okay, we need to go all in on that second offering while maintaining the existing customer base, but not welcoming new customers in that initial offering. Just through the market evolution, we had initial traction on the first one, but quite naturally, second offering, the embedded offering, came along, and we really had to go on that one.

[00:09:16.810] – Joran

It’s always funny. You see these memes that, I guess, like bootstrapping, or at least what I see a lot, that a lot of bootstrappers, they say, We listen a lot to our customers, and we talk to them all the time where funded companies just marketing and try to get as much as possible. But it’s really nice to hear that you guys listened a lot and the pivot actually came from talking to your customers a lot.

[00:09:38.980] – Thomas

Yeah, that’s true. Interesting memes, actually. There’s definitely some truth in there.

[00:09:43.900] – Joran

I know that a lot of companies are starting with the early stages. Can you tell a little bit about your journey on getting your first paid clients in?

[00:09:51.420] – Thomas

Couple of things there. We’re from Belgium, small country, even smaller than Netherlands. Also a pretty complex country in a way that we have three national languages So in general, we quite soon look beyond the Belgium boundaries in a second phase. But the first phase when it comes to first customers is very much when it comes to network. Our first customer was, for example, a former employer of Kyle and Aarun. Then what we did in the early days, I think we’ve done maybe all type of incubators and programs we have in Belgium, even eventually six, seven of them. That’s also, especially as we were present in the software market, we were selling to other participants and eventually other software players part of those programs. That’s an important one. To my prior point, as we’re a small country, pretty soon, for example, when it comes to the US, today, we have one-third of our revenue coming from the US. We actually started flying as of 2017 regularly to the US to look for first customers there and eventually grow also a team over there.

[00:10:49.410] – Joran

Yeah, that’s interesting. You joined as many incubated as you can, and then you had clients who basically fit the ICP, most likely, so you were able to sell to them. Did they take any equity or was it purely like you just had to pay to get?

[00:11:01.880] – Thomas

From all the programs we did, only one took some equity, of course, with some additional tickets linked to that as well.

[00:11:09.350] – Joran

Always a fun question, which I’m going to ask now. Everybody, can you tell about the moment your What part of the moment and how did you get out of that?

[00:11:16.970] – Thomas

There are definitely a couple of those moments, specifically at Cumulai Lozmo. I wouldn’t say, like I mentioned, the previous topic, the US part was a walk in the park at all. I still remember the end of 2017 was the first and then we flew a couple of times a year. Especially the first times in the US wasn’t easy. I still remember the first customer we signed up there was after weeks, if not months of hard work. At the beginning, you were going there. We had very limited funding. You start counting up on the cost, right? Flights, staying there, and you think, Is this all worth it? But eventually, you roll into that first couple of prospects, that first deal where you were even up to the bigger competitors. If you then win that and then take a bet on a first full-time salesperson on the ground. That’s something that in hindsight, I believe, was one of the key turning points that we have so far in our growth story. Yeah.

[00:12:07.140] – Joran

Would you recommend, because there’s a lot of people who want to sell to you as companies, would you recommend doing something similar? Would you guys to keep traveling there?

[00:12:14.990] – Thomas

Yes, I would recommend keeping on traveling there as much as you can. If I were to do something different, and I know that’s not always easy for people tuning in or eventually also for myself or the other family’s context. If I would do it again, I would still do it the same way, but eventually also consider moving there. That’s a classic one I know that I believe it could make even a bigger difference.

[00:12:37.010] – Joran

You’re still on your journey, right? Would you even consider moving there right now or is it a no-go for you?

[00:12:42.610] – Thomas

I would indeed consider it, but of course, Let’s say, personally-wise, it should all in all pieces of the puzzle, it should fall together. I’m still convinced now or in the early days, at a 2017, 2018, I still believe it would make a difference. I’m even more convinced about it. If you look at how the last couple of years have been. We’ve had a very nice ride also in the US. One-third of our revenue is coming from there. But I believe you even have a bigger impact. I’m actually convinced about it.

[00:13:10.420] – Joran

When we go back to the rock bottom moment, was this also the biggest challenging period for yourself as a founder?

[00:13:17.710] – Thomas

Definitely one of them, yeah. You’re just so dedicated to make it work. I’m always thinking about that first deal, but eventually, it’s also the transition towards setting up of welcoming a first sales A representative. Thinking back, he joined Q4 2019, so onboarding in Belgium. We hired a Belgium colleague to join and then flying over early 2020. Covid hitting in, so it was okay. Let’s say most of the work that we have been doing was getting out there in New York, meeting of people. That wasn’t possible. Luckily, we were able to help him succeed, let’s say, US part of a business during COVID. Proved that we could also sell just purely of a video call. So that wasn’t That’s a really important moment as well. Yeah.

[00:14:03.070] – Joran

These are already company challenges because the next question I wanted to ask, what has been the biggest company challenge you guys had? Are there many challenges you probably faced along the way? Yeah, that’s me.

[00:14:13.940] – Thomas

There are many Some of the challenges, I believe what could be interesting here is if we would focus on the go-to-market parts. There we’ve been lucky and we’ve done a great job with our initial marketing colleague, who is still with us, by the way, Mieke. Shout out to her. To really build a very decent inflow of inbound leads and inbound AIR. When it comes to the challenge that I want to highlight is I’m always a big believer of outbound and getting after your personas within your ICP companies. I’ve always had a strong belief in that. That has been an evolving It’s been an evolving challenge to have that second line of revenue. Perhaps you could talk to that as well. For sure, we’ve seen great success. In the early days, we had a decent success. Then we hired some experienced reps in the team who helped us shape a next move of outbound revenue. Eventually, Actually, also right now, the market in terms of tools and strategies has really much evolved. You might come to that later. If I would do it again, especially nowadays, I would do it differently.

[00:15:09.250] – Joran

Yeah, I’m definitely going to ask that later. You mentioned already, you go to market strategy, you mentioned inbound, because what If we’re going to talk about the positive things, what has been the best thing so far you’ve done to grow Luzmo to where it is today?

[00:15:21.520] – Thomas

That’s still, and if I look at the whole journey, is that, and obviously speak to a lot of SaaS companies, that we’ve been lucky, but I believe as a company, we’ve done also a great job on making sure that through content, accompanied with some paid initiatives, we’ve been able to reach, let’s say, our SaaS and software companies we’re going after, and we’ve been able to let them download white papers, start trials. We have also very transparent pricing and really getting in touch with them and from there actually accompanying them across the line and become eventually a customer with us. I believe that’s been one of our main growth levers, let’s say, in the initial days, even a a year or two back. Now we’re juggling also that part with outbound and really finding a nice balance. But it’s a continuous exercise to keep inbound up and complement with.

[00:16:10.290] – Joran

Because you mentioned inbound content, running a lot of content, but have the paid assist, as you guys said. It’s also went through that. Now you’re doing outbound, is there anything else you’ve done in your go-to-market strategy where other SaaS funders can learn from?

[00:16:25.580] – Thomas

Yeah, but might tap into here it is as well. It’s been two years that I’ve been dedicating, let’s say, part of my time also towards all things partnerships. So we don’t only build or service partnerships, but eventually also product partnerships. That’s a tough one. Even now, if we’re beyond the 5 million, I had some successes, but that’s one of them took quite some time. Right now, it’s back to the reactive parts. It’s not a proactive go-to-market component that we’re pushing today. But indeed, there, I’ve seen success now with a service provider who’s using our product and also looking towards incorporating it in their product offering, in their service offering. We are a product that they can implement with their customers. Yes, we’re working with that, but it takes a lot of time, especially if you’re, I can only speak for myself, a first-time founder and you haven’t done it before. But it’s something that I’ve been playing with, let’s say, for a year. And eventually, one of those efforts came back two years later and eventually, they were a customer. But yes, it’s the third lever that we’ve been pulling, eventually with success, but it does take a lot of time.

[00:17:35.530] – Joran

Yeah, but it’s now somewhat, as you mentioned, on the bench, you’re not actively doing anything right now with it? No. Besides the one you got in.

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[00:18:03.590] – Joran

When we talk about your go-to-market strategy, did you guys make any critical decisions? If you now look back, if I haven’t done X, Y, Z, we wouldn’t be here.

[00:18:13.610] – Thomas

Again, it’s the inbound motion. Although we wouldn’t have come to initial funding routes or initial successes for sure. I believe outbound is something that’s tough but will always exist and should exist because I believe there’s a lot of value in there if you it right. Also in my current role, like I mentioned, so I’m iterating, for example, on your product line, incorporating AI. I’ll also use that extra time I have to experiment with other go-to-market techniques. I’m a bit more looking forward now, if that’s It’s okay to answer your question. I’m always been a big believer in events and partly linked, for example, to the partnerships that I… If you look to tech partnerships, so let’s say, for example, databases that you would connect to Luzmo, I’m currently looking into partnering up with some of these providers and do joint meetups or small events and see if we can invite joint prospects, joint customers, but also just refer them to each other. It’s not a very new technique, but it’s something that we haven’t been doing too often, which I believe we should do just more, not even always having 50 or 100 people. Could be also breakfast sessions, for example.

[00:19:24.620] – Thomas

Something that I believe we should do more with also more players than the few ones that we’re currently I think it’s always a great way to get yourself showcased towards their users and vice versa.

[00:19:35.360] – Joran

But I think the most important thing is you’re going to drive it with value. You mentioned breakfast sessions, which often means you’re going to share value and hopefully not selling too much regarding the session.

[00:19:46.000] – Thomas

No, that’s a need. Making sure that it’s not too branded, too sales-driven, making sure that in the case that we’re doing that, there’s a case with somebody who comes and share how they’ve been doing before, how they’re currently doing. In many cases, also leveraging technology of the partner. Then we also have a case on our customers, accompanying that with pizza and drinks afterwards. There’s no push on sales. We’ve done a few of these. We should do more of these, to be honest.

[00:20:13.560] – Joran

Yeah, but as you mentioned, they do take a lot of time, and it’s a long effort as well. You don’t get instant results. Maybe a bit of a side question. You guys changed the name. You already mentioned a little bit at the beginning. What’s the reason behind the name/brand change?

[00:20:29.290] – Thomas

I think one of the The main reasons was that in Dutch, it’s called cumulio. Then if you translate to English, it’s Cumulio. Then you mentioned in beginning, cumul. Some people have a lot of other vowel alterations like Kamal or Kimil. I don’t know where that actually came from. But we decided after the last funding round, it’s not only linked to the name, but eventually also the branding, but also the positioning. I mentioned about you that pivot that we did in the early days. But let’s also think about the messaging, the visuals, but also the wording. And there we went for a wider rebranding exercise that also changed the names. But if you would compare our website and our messaging, that has also changed about a year.

[00:21:12.080] – Joran

Yeah, and I noticed that the LinkedIn company page still has formerly come up.

[00:21:16.080] – Thomas

Yeah, we still have it in there. I also notice when I reach out or I restart a conversation with somebody that I hadn’t had for a couple of months, that I still put it in there, formerly Cumulio, or that I also mentioned that we changed names and I still dropped Cumulio there. At some point that will fade out, but indeed we still keep it, for example, on the LinkedIn page for now as well. It’s also a good way to find out who is doing some outbound or reaching out to us, leveraging our LinkedIn, for example, because if you see in the title of an email or in the body of an email, you’re pretty sure that they are automating their messaging. That’s a side remark.

[00:21:51.630] – Joran

It’s a good one because we had the same thing with our LinkedIn profile. It wasn’t just called ready to, but we had something behind it. Then you can clearly see if people just use it as a custom attribute in their email campaigns. When we look at your journey, is there something you regret the most you didn’t do or maybe did too late?

[00:22:10.000] – Thomas

In the high side, obviously, it’s always easy looking back. It was a time when it comes to go-to-market. I’m mainly focusing here on go-to-market, if that’s fine. We actually grew the SDR team to at some point seven or nearly eight SDRs with initially indeed great results. But in hindsight, I wouldn’t have a scale set up so fast. Of course, now where you see a lot of initiatives with a different role for SDRs or where you see that it’s not always that capital-efficient anymore. But even back then, I wouldn’t have done it at that speed. Like you mentioned earlier, we had some funding back then. I think back then, our light strand was 10 million, so you could count back. Back then, it was much leaner in terms of funding. Even back then, I wouldn’t have done it at that speed.

[00:22:58.100] – Joran

Is it then that the numbers didn’t really Did it work out because you were going too fast with them?

[00:23:02.040] – Thomas

Eventually, let’s say in the beginning, it did work out, especially with the initial SDR team. It looked promising just by having more SDRs doing the same, of executing the same strategy. If you just would extrapolate, it would have made sense. Initially it did, but then still I believe it should have rather spread over time with a smaller team. I believe that would have been a better approach.

[00:23:26.020] – Joran

We look at new technologies. You guys have an AI-powered embed solution, so you’re definitely leveraging new technologies like AI. Tell me a bit more, how are you guys using AI machine learning in day-to-day and maybe in the product?

[00:23:38.760] – Thomas

Product-wise, two things I can tell you. In the current product, what we already have is the possibility to build dashboards in a second step, then obviously embed them in your application, so fully white-labeled. The building of those dashboards that we have that’s AI-powered, meaning that you could instruct with a prompt what to build a chart, a couple of charts, even suggest charts to be built through AI. That’s facilitating the dashboard creation part. That’s one. Then the second one, which is part of my new role, is that we believe there is quite some value to use AI beyond the visual layer, to rather ask questions. Imagine I’m a CRM user that instead of asking AI to build a dashboard, is really asking AI to answer a question on my business. Let’s say, how is my What are my business doing? Or if I’m a, for example, logistical player, are my deliveries being delivered in time? Do you get a texture or an answer on my business, accompanied with visual insights, but you can directly use AI on the underlying data rather than using AI to build dashboards on your data. That’s something that we have a big belief in that we have seen a lot of confirmation from our customers and prospects.

[00:24:55.660] – Thomas

We’re currently focusing quite some of our development efforts on The underlying thing you say is you save people time with AI, either building the charts or you’re giving them insights by talking to their data one-on-one. Exactly.

[00:25:09.840] – Joran

I really love these things where it’s really value-driven. You really build it to make your client either saving time or giving them more insights. Exactly. When we look back at your journey, and you might have covered it already a little bit, but what has been your… We always love this, fuck up or failure. What has been your biggest moment where you’re like, Oh, shit.

[00:25:32.750] – Thomas

Obviously, a couple of them. I already touched upon it. It’s like going too fast while we should have been a bit more careful on spending our money on building a team that eventually was too overstaffed to what we’re doing on the outbound side. That’s what I mentioned earlier. There are obviously also fuck-ups of deals that we should have approached differently, but also a couple of deals, maybe something I can share is that something that I believe there’s still, even recently, deals that just answer of people conversations companies, Hey, we just went with another vendor. I recently turned around one of these answers is that don’t take any reply just for granted. Try to understand, and like you mentioned, bootstrap company or not, really understand why they would even choose another vendor. Sometimes I just believe you can do X, Y, Z, but if you then potentially have done a better job in the beginning, but still hopefully grasped that last chance to explain why X, Y, Z would be different with us. There, definitely, we would have with that where we have done not a great job, but also some recent examples where you always need to challenge an eventual outcome, of course, in a polite way.

[00:26:44.770] – Thomas

But that can still deliver results. It’s still two months ago where we were very important customers, where the initial reply was, Thanks, we won’t go for another vendor. Yeah, that’s a good insight.

[00:26:54.790] – Joran

If you could do it again from the start, what would you do differently?

[00:26:57.310] – Thomas

What I still had a conversation earlier today with one of our colleagues here is as being a funded company, and you mentioned in the beginning, but I like the wording actually, still aim to wear as much as possible your bootstrapped hats, where You should keep your customer at heart and don’t think too much out of your internal lingo or your internal metrics and really be rather their help, their support, their specialists to achieve their goal and their strategy, rather than thinking, Hey, let’s have a demo. Let’s show what we have without really showing what is of interest and importance to them. That’s something in the sales process, but also in the post-sales customer success is something that I believe we, or generally everybody, should still be aware of and really keep on focusing on. Nice.

[00:27:51.040] – Joran

We’re going to dive into the last bit of the podcast recording. We’re going to dive into, hopefully, practical advice based on revenue stages. What advice would you give now another SaaS founder who’s just starting out and growing to 10K monthly recurring revenue?

[00:28:05.370] – Thomas

What I would do, and I believe that I have done, I’m just speaking for myself, but I haven’t done enough in the beginning is with your initial customers, really having crystal clear and eventually asking them one time too much on every step of why they eventually chose you and how that potentially changed even after signing a contract with you. I don’t I think at least we haven’t done that enough, and I’m not sure if you’re at 10K MRR or lower, you’re grasping and putting enough time in that because that can be so crucial for yourself going to a next MRR milestone. Because from your existing customers, it’s classic, but again, I believe we haven’t done that enough. It’s really understanding for your existing customers how they came along and how that opinion still is today, because that’s exactly what should go into your your marketing and your sales pitch for finding new customers. It’s not rocket science, but I believe that we haven’t done that enough. We’re doing better now, but it’s something I would really recommend NKMR customers, especially if you’re non-funded, but even if you’re funded, you should still do that.

[00:29:16.210] – Joran

It’s an easy thing to forget because as soon as the contract comes in or a credit card is added, then you support them. But it’s an important question to ask.

[00:29:24.480] – Thomas

Maybe one more, I wouldn’t say a relatively recent insight for myself. It’s also going beyond it saves time, it brings extra revenue, it increases your ROI, which it’s true, but you should even get that more concrete and find a way. Because those levers could be on the website of every one of your competitors, is finding words and explanations of your customers that are that specific about your solution that other ones wouldn’t have or would have a very hard time to find out.

[00:30:04.830] – Joran

Yeah, because it’s easy to start using that in your messaging. You’re going to do cold outreach, paydads, website, etc. Let’s assume we pass 10K MRR. You’re on your journey now as well towards 10 million ARR. I guess what advice would you give yourself and other SaaS founders who pass 10K MR and growing to 10 million ARR?

[00:30:24.650] – Thomas

Obviously, your MRR level, and if at all, you choose for funding, it should permit it. But I would recommend for a lot of founders on the podcast is to think about where do you get the most of your energy from and where do you believe you help your company the most For myself, that’s also the recent transition where we hired VP sales, taking on the sales team, of course, when it comes to the strategy, but especially the operational part, and then myself, focusing on new initiatives. I believe if you can and you believe that also counts for yourself, for the energy and the value you can bring. I would rather recommend that doing that earlier than later. It’s beyond the title you hold. I believe you shouldn’t keep your VP, C-level, Director title just for the title. Look beyond that and see where you can bring your company to the next level in the best role that gives you the most energy.

[00:31:23.120] – Joran

Yeah, because that’s the most important thing. You’re already going at it for eight years, so you need to keep yourself motivated. That’s what you mentioned. You have to keep doing things you find fun. Cool. Let me try to summarize. You don’t have to come up with an idea as a founder. You could actually join a team of other founders if they already have an idea. Join as many incubators as you can, especially if the other ones fit your ICP, it could be really good selling point. Pivoting becomes a lot easier if you talk and listen to your customers. Keep asking them why they chose you. Find specific value points. If you’re selling in the US or want to sell in the US, go there as much as you can. Even consider moving. Outbound is becoming a lot more challenging in 2024. If your energy goes down on a certain aspect, hire somebody else to take over your role. And especially if you’re on your way to 10 million ARR when you can take more employees on board. Partnerships take long time. Joint events are a great way to start with. Don’t scale up your sales too fast.

[00:32:22.980] – Joran

Make sure the financial actually work out and then leverage AI to drive more value, save people time or give them more insights.

[00:32:29.390] – Thomas

Well done.

[00:32:31.090] – Joran

There we go. People can just listen to the summary. Nice. It was really nice having gone to show Thomas. If people want to reach out to you, what would be the best way to do?

[00:32:38.550] – Thomas

The best way for getting in touch with me is, I would say, LinkedIn. Thomas de Klerk, or I guess LinkedIn/deklerk. Thomas. That’s the easiest way to get in touch.

[00:32:47.220] – Joran

We’re going to make sure that we link back towards your LinkedIn profile. We’re going to add a link to Luzmo, a outpowered embed solution for SaaS companies. Definitely, if you’re struggling with your analytics, check them out. If you’re listening, please leave us a review on the platform you’re listening right now so we can help other SaaS founders out there. We’re going to add a poll to this podcast as well to get your opinion on it. Thanks again for coming on, Thomas.

[00:33:11.210] – Thomas

We love pleasure. Thanks, Johan. Cheers.

[00:33:13.950] – Joran

Thank you for watching this show of the Grow Your B2B SaaS podcast. You made it till the end, so I think we can assume you like this content. If you did, give us a thumbs up, subscribe to the channel. If you like this content, feel free to reach out if you want to sponsor the show. If you have a specific guest in mind, if you have a specific topic you want us to cover, reach out to me on LinkedIn. More than happy to take a look at it. If you want to know more about Reddit, feel free to reach out as well. But for now, have a great day and good luck growing your B2B SaaS.